When any being in the natural world returns to the unity behind all things, or perhaps recognizes its interconnectedness with all things, that being discovers its ideal state of being. On the other hand, by trying to be separate, a being or thing ironically loses its defining identity. An easy-to-understand example is that of a ruler. By ignoring the interdependence of the people and the ruler, a ruler thinks he is distinct, loftier, and worthy of unique glory. Nevertheless, by becoming detached from the people, he loses touch with his rule. In practical terms, this typically leads to the overthrow or irrelevance of an arrogant and self-serving leader.

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Jeff and Stacie try out a relationship strategy for use especially in the immediate wake of a conflict-producing event in a romantic relationship, religious community, or workplace. In order to “Taosurf” relationships, they suggest that it can be helpful to separate out a) intentions, b) actions, c) reactions, and d) resolutions. This conversation might help you think through the reasons why you get into relationship conflicts and how to not let them ruin a relationship.

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Grab your favorite beverage and join us for a long form conversation with our new friends Lori and Cliff Lewis (veteran Christian radio DJ and hair metal guitarist respectively), to discuss their experiences with Contemporary Christian Music, Lutheranism, the idea of vocation, and Solomon’s wisdom. The music behind the opening is Lori singing and then a taste of Femme Fatale transitions us into the main conversation.

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In the end, when societies focus on etiquette and the husk of ethical relations, we are often dangerously close to having to turn to coercion and force instead of naturally harmonious interactions. This is where “flexing the muscles” comes in. When folks don’t follow the rules, the enforcers of societal stability have to remind everyone of their punitive power that is behind the rituals and protocols of politeness.

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An interview with Corey Farr, creator and host of the podcast A Christian Reads the Tao Te Ching. We discuss our favorite and least favorite chapters of the Tao Te Ching. We explore karma, providence, orphanages, and religious education. Farr is a seminary graduate, a Christian Anarchist, a writer, a poet and songwriter. He teaches at a residential school for Syrian refugees in Lebanon, and can be followed at coreyfarr.com. We were privileged to get a chance to talk with this wise student of Lao Tzu from a Christian vantage point.

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This show is just a little bit of letting down the hair with champagne after a long and emotionally exhausting 2020. Why do many set an “intention” at the start of a contemplative practice or yin yoga session? How does this relate to New Year’s resolutions? Without the normal opportunities for group festivities, Jeff and Stacie spend a quiet evening discussing the advantages and dangers of setting expectations and establishing goals. The discussion gets going after a bit of champagne, so forgive the meandering of this late-night chat. We’ll have more focused interviews and content-packed conversations in the episodes just around the corner. Happy New Year!

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This episode shares an international student perspective on American food, work & religion. We interview Jeff’s compelling student Malik, who is an international student who was stuck with us on an empty campus over the winter break. We invited candid observations from our guest, who obliged our questions but is by nature not one to offer unsolicited criticism.

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"The Tao does not coerce." --Lao Tzu. In this reflection, Stacie uses this chapter to help answer a question about rearing children through the way of non-domination.

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If you want to exhale, first take a deep breath. If you want to relax, first tense your muscles. If you want to clear your mind first notice your frantic thoughts. If you want to receive, first give. This is how to perceive the light that’s hidden amid the shadows.

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While organized religion seems to be on the decline, at least in terms of official membership, those who see their congregations and adherents dissipating wring their hands and try to figure out how to lure folks back into their communities.

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n a world that is clawing for “winner” status and climbing over the “losers” without compassion, Lao Tzu teaches about three treasures he holds dear: compassion, minimalism, and the way of non-domination. Here, there is a sort of anarchy (listen to hear the precise definition of this term in both Taoist and Christian context), and definitely a rejection of the idea cruel power and domination as the key to life and good government.

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The winding shape of a river is a natural occurrence caused by a natural flow. Observing its course, we see that it never attempts to smash straight through a rock or hill, but rather dances around obstacles and goes on its way. Nonetheless, only fools underestimate its power, which can undermine the mightiest of fortresses.

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Discover what makes others tick
and you’ll be people smart.
Understand your true self
and you’ll be enlightened.
To confront others is gutsy.
To confront your true self is heroic.

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Lao Tzu speaks of a profound and perhaps dreadful power that one could wield through deciphering the power in, with and under a single atom. Perhaps he even knew that one day humans could channel this power in the form of nuclear fission and weapons capable of leveling entire cities.

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Take things one step at a time. This lesson draws from Tao Te Ching chapters 63 and 64.

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Lao Tzu says that we ought not only use weapons as a last resort, he teaches that it is unhealthy to fetishize weapons, glorify violence, or take delight in the death of an enemy. This is eminently sound.

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This chapter resonates with Jesus’ teaching: “Live by the sword, die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52). It is also one of several places where we see a sort of healthy “selfishness” at play. We’re referring here to the possible influence of the school of Yang Chu, who taught a kind of ethical egoism. This isn’t the self-destructive selfishness of narcissists and gluttons, but rather an emphasis on personal health as foundational for one’s ability to care for others. As they say on commercial flights: In the case of an emergency cabin decompression first put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others.

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Lao Tzu emphasizes value of carving out empty space in one's life for centering, creativity, and preparation for action. We discuss this, and the concept of Sabbath in the Jewish and Christian traditions. The chapters discussed are 11, 73 and 12.

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The concept of wu wei is practically and clearly stated in this chapter. Again, this principle of acting by not acting isn’t about disregarding one’s duties, nor is it about being a pushover. It’s about letting the natural forces of the world flow as they flow without arrogantly assuming we can step in and control the flow through force.

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Lao Tzu clearly favors the feminine principle, the negative space, and the faith of a child. This last preference is especially resonant with the teachings of Jesus about being childlike. Over and over, we’ve been pointing to teachings from Jesus but not to create a syncretistic new way of thinking. Instead we are showing how Jesus and Lao Tzu often were teaching similar things. This has little to do with what is known as doctrine in Christian theological circles, however.

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